Any Japanese rock fan worth their salt knows The Flower Travellin' Band. As guitarist for that unit, Hideki Ishima helped create one of the most distinctive guitar albums in rock history, 1971's "Satori." His buzzing, limber lines gave the record its shape and made an impact that is still being felt today. Especially in the West, where "Satori" has justly been branded as not just a lost classic, but perhaps the lost classic, acting as the de facto entry point to anyone serious about educating themselves on Japanese rock music. Imagining Japanese rock without "Satori" is like imagining western rock without Jimi Hendrix's "Are You Experienced."

But when the Flower Travellin' Band went on hiatus in 1973 (they did not break up, as Ishima-san will be quick to point out,) the endlessly inventive guitarist dropped off western radar. During that period, he continued to make exceptional work with bands like Co-Colo, Trans Am, Pythagoras Party, and the Donjuan R&B Band, as well as backing up vocalists like Flower Travellin' Band's Joe Yamanaka, and occasional Akira Kurosawa actor Jinpachi Nezu ("Ran," "Kagemusha.")

Now, with the Flower Travellin' Band off hiatus, Ishima is back in the spotlight. He's also got a new improv unit called View, and exclusively plays the Sitarla, a sitar/guitar hybrid of his own invention. In February, Ishima-san sat down with Jrawk to discuss gifts from God, the state of Japanese rock, and resurrecting his old band (American tour information for the Flower Travellin' Band can be found after the interview.)

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JR: You're known for The Flower Travellin' Band, but you have another band called View.

HI: (Nods) That started a couple of years ago.

JR: How did that start?

HI: I love those guys. (Bassist Keizo) Endo and I were friends from before. I had seen his bands, and when I get a band together, I asked them, and they said "Why not? Let's go."

JR: How much is improv?

HI: We'll have a theme, and an ending, some sort of basic rule, but everything else is improvised. Sometimes we'll go along, sometimes it's not working and we'll go straight to the end, it's about feel.

JR: You've said that much of "Satori" was improvised, and it's been a strong element in your work. When did you start getting into improv?

HI: It started with Flower Travellin' Band. In (Ishima's pre-FTB band) The Beavers, we didn't do that of course, just copied. All the time, the same stuff...that was ridiculous!

JR: It's different from FTB in that it's more fusion, and obviously improv based. It's also a good showcase for the sitarla. How did the sitarla come about?

HI: I've been playing sitar along with the guitar, almost 40 years. I wanted to take the sitar method of playing to the guitar, but for a long time, no one cared, no one was curious. But finally, Nagai-san said OK, I'm gonna try it. We talked about styles for a while, and I finally got one in 2000. I'm pinching myself, "Is this a dream?" (laughs)

JR: 40 years of sitar...so you started before Flower Travellin' Band.

HI: (Nods) I was 24. When I was in a Group Sounds band called the Beavers, some girl told me about (jazz guitarist) Gabor Szabo, thought maybe I'd like that kind of sound. I heard it, started checking him out, and I read he played sitar as well. I didn't know what that meant...what's a sitar? I didn't know. So, I'm looking in Ginza, found a place that had one...just one sitar. So I started.

JR: It's a pretty difficult instrument.

HI: Yes, very difficult. I though it would be easy, that it would be the same kind of instrument as a guitar. They're almost brothers. I made a mistake! (laughs) I tried hard, anyway. I recently found a guru named Pandit Manilal Nag, met him in 1998. Before that, I was learning from Ravi Shankar's book, "My Life My Music."

JR: When you moved to the sitarla, was the learning curve difficult as well?

HI: Yeah! (laughs) Well, not so difficult, I had spent a lot of time on the sitar method, a lot of time thinking about playing it on a guitar. Sitarla is a kind of strange guitar, but the length and width are the same as a sitar.

JR: Do you play guitar anymore?

HI: Not really, sometimes when I'm drinking with my friends! (laughs) I'm not that interested in guitar anymore.

JR: That makes sense, even your guitar parts sound like sitar.

HI: I like Indian music, and of course Japanese music as well, it's in my blood. I'm honest now, about what I play! (laughs) That's important, I think.

JR: Do you ever feel limited by such a specialized instrument?

HI: Sometimes I wish I could play it faster, but it's really difficult. I get sore fingers! (laughs) But I'm not too worried about that, since I can play it so it sounds almost like a vocal line. I don't need to...(makes super-fast guitar noises) (laughs) John McLaughlin can do that, I don't need to!

JR: I hadn't realized the sitarla was so recent. There's a big gap in English information on you for the period between The Flower Travellin' Band's hiatus in 1973, and its reformation in 2008.

HI: After we put FTB on hold, I had one solo album, "One Day." After that, I was in a band called Trans Am. Then I took a few years off, and joined the Donjuan R&R Band with Kenichi Hagiwara..."Shoken" was his nickname. I also worked with Jinpachi Nezu...after that was Co-Colo with and Kenji Sawada, up until..1990, maybe. I'm not sure, my special talent is forgetting! (laughs) During that time I'd work with Joe (Yamanaka, Flower Travellin' Band vocalist) and Shino (FTB keyboardist Nobuhiko Shinohara,) we'd jam sometimes. I quit guitar in 1990. I had money problems. Goddamnit! (everybody laughs) So I spent ten years not playing, and I came back in 2000 with the sitarla. It was amazing, like a gift from God.

JR: How difficult was the process of creating the sitarla? Getting a working prototype is always a hassle.

HI: First I had the idea, nobody cared. They said "you're crazy!" It took almost fifteen years, nobody cared. That was a problem! (laughs) I had to change my mindset, because the sitarla is 3 1/2 tones lower than a regular guitar.

JR: So how long until you mastered the instrument?

HI: I haven't yet! I started in 2000, this is 2009, that hasn't been enough. I keep trying, step by step.

JR: Going back to Co-Colo...This was a full band, not just a project, right?

HI: Yes. Kind of pop, with progressive elements. It was all original material, it was pretty interesting. I still like our first album a lot. We made a couple of albums, then they fired me! I don't know why, but after that, I had Goddamned money problems! (laughs)

Oh yes, there was also Pythagoras Party, around 2000 in London. Shino (FTB keyboardist Nobuhiko Shinohara) and I, we met with a friend of mine named Kuma Harada, he had played with (Fleetwood Mac's) Peter Green. He played bass, and played on songs that Shino and I had written. We used a lot of electronics, and got a lot of vocalists: a Nepalese woman, a white guy, a Japanese girl, a black woman...we all got together to form this band. We had an album called "More-ish."

After we came back, the producer and director fought over it, it got all fucked up! (laughs) It's out of print, we only made two or three thousand of them. That was an interesting album, it was the first album with sitarla. Almost all improv, pretty progressive stuff. I like that album. It was a little amateurish, I was still learning the sitarla! (laughs)

JR: Do you ever think about doing another solo album? "One Day" is a surprising album, especially coming off the Flower Travellin' Band material. It's light where the FTB stuff was very dark.

One Day (1973)

HI: I wanted to try other ideas. But I don't want to make another solo album. I like making an album from my own ideas, but I prefer a band. Playing with other people is better. Maybe I could do it, but now, I'm not really interested. Maybe if you financed it! (laughs)

JR: You've said in the past that you're not interested in nostalgia. Do you feel that way now?

HI: I've said that before, but changed my mind somewhat. People want older stuff, and I can do it with the sitarla now...it's more interesting now that there's a new instrument. The other FTB members agreed with that, it's made the older stuff more interesting to play. It's a pretty different sound.

JR: Is that what led you back to Flower Travellin' Band?

HI: Well, I was worried about the business behind getting that band back together, as well as having to play the old material...I didn't want nostalgia. There was also Jun (Kobayashi, FTB bassist) and Joji (Wada, FTB drummer) to think about...they hadn't played for years. We talked about it, how do we get this going again? They were eager, they pushed me into it. OK, OK, I'll do it! (laughs)

I was also curious about what kind of music the band would make now. Yeah, we might fail, but we should at least try.

JR: So are you happy with the new album ("We Are Here?")

HI: Yes. (pauses) Kind of happy. Not totally.

JR: Kind of?

HI: I want to play from a place that's deeper in our mind, from a Japanese perspective. I want something that comes from us as Japanese men, so the next one will come from our heart, more than "We Are Here."

JR: It's interesting to hear you say that. A lot of the people I've talked to have complained that Japanese rock tries to be too much like foreign music.

The Flower Travellin' Band's "We Are Here" (2008)

HI: (nods) Yeah, that's true. But even back in 1970, we wanted to play from our minds, our hearts. We receive all this music from the west, and I thought we had to answer with our own music, our own personal music. "We Are Here" had some of that, but I want to do more. Don't misunderstand, I like "We Are Here," but I'm the kind of person that's never totally satisfied.

JR: You've said that you're never completely satisfied with your albums. What would you change?

HI: Nothing specific. Music is like that: I always want to try more, to move on, to try new things. It's never perfect.

JR: One thing I'm curious about: Japrocksampler implies that you were contributing less and less to The Flower Travellin Band after "Satori."

HI: That's just his impression! (laughs) I was always trying out new arrangements, experimenting. I'm always experimenting, same as now.

JR: Going back in time a bit...what's the "seven tone guitar sound?"

HI: Oh, yeah! (laughs) Kase Kunihiko from (Group Sounds band) The Wild Ones said that about me. I like playing with toys, wah-wah, things like that.

JR: What sort of music do you listen to now?

HI: I like ambient stuff, stuff to relax. I'll watch a lot of American movies on PC, or CNN, news stuff. I like all kinds of music, they all give something.

JR: Any specific artists?

HI: Just me! (laughs) No, I like Gabor Szabo, Charles Mingus. I'm always looking for other incentive.

JR: What about when you were younger? The Beavers (Ishima's Group Sounds band) were called "Japan's Yardbirds."

HI: (nods) I like them, The Kinks, The Zombies, we copied a lot of them. Jeff Back, he was really unique. "Heart Full Of Soul" really got my attention. I got so much from so many guitarists.

JR: You have a strong focus on playing from a Japanese perspective. Were you ever disappointed in Japanese rock's tendency to copy?

HI: Hmm...not really. We have the opportunity to learn from this music. I used to copy myself, things like "Take Five," I learn from it, it gives me something. Blues stuff, jazz stuff...I can copy it, and learn from it.

JR: Does it bother you that there's still so much copying?

HI: (pauses) I think musicians always want to be original, I'll always tell young people "take the first step, why don't you start?" Then they say "Ishima-san, we want to." Then why don't they do it?! (laughs) They're intimidated. If I start singing, and Stevie Wonder or someone is sitting next to me, I get nervous. BUT...why not try by yourself? They can do it, but still...they'll ask "how can you do that?" I'll ask "why can't you do that?"

I wanna ask them, "don't you have any balls?" (laughs) Try it anyway. Even if you fail, try it anyway. I especially want to convey to young musicians: don't compare yourself with other players!

That said, I really like Natsuki Kido and Taizo Sakai, they keep going from themselves.

The theme on display, at a View show in Shibuya Crocodile, January 2009

If you stay here (makes a stopping motion with his hands,) you can't grow, you're still copying. One day, I thought, if I move here (moves his hands around the table) I can be free, have freedom with my Japanese perspective, my Japanese mind. THIS is freedom. That's what The Flower Travellin' Band was like in the beginning. That's where "Satori" came from.

JR: How is that freedom different with View? What's the difference between playing with View and playing with The Flower Travellin' Band?

HI: View is instrumental, no vocals. View has a lot of improvisation, Flower Travellin' Band not so much, but really, I don't think there's much difference. We play different stuff, but I feel, when I'm playing sitarla in View, and when I'm playing with The Flower Travellin' Band, I play the same. The two bands sound different to the audience, but it still comes from me and the sitarla.

With View, we'll have a theme, and start from there (NOTE: while playing, View has a banner displayed on stage, showing the theme for the specific song they're playing.) We like that idea, that presentation. We (the band) don't discuss what the theme might mean to us as individuals, but we keep it in mind. The audience can use their own imagination, everybody's going to have their own ideas about the theme.

I'm working with other musicians, and we have another group called Sixth Sense. It's like a movie by improvisation: we'll start with an image, or an idea, and work from there. It works the same way for me, but people will always have their personal perspectives.

HI: You're working on a new FTB album, but what's next for View?

JR: We'd like to make an album, but there's not much interest in the band from labels! (laughs) But we'll keep going.

JR: The theme for "We Are Here" was one of freedom, that you can do what you want to do. What's the theme for the next album?

HI: We're thinking, but it's a secret! (laughs) I'd like to tell you, but...sorry! (laughs)

JR: Is there anything you'd like to add?

HI: I'd like to tell Japanese musicians: try it! Try it from your mind and your heart. Yes, You can do it !