Hoppy Kamiyama

Hoppy Kamiyama is often referred to as the Japanese Brian Eno, a comparison that is not without merit but, like many such comparisons, is far too simplistic. Kamiyama plays many roles: pop musician, classical composer, arranger, jester: a technical virtuoso who's more comfortable with a bit of chaos.

Starting off in the pop band Pink, Kamiyama took his childhood interest in classical music and began to apply it to everything in sight, in the process working with a virtual who's who of modern music from all over the musical map (John Zorn, Yonin Bayashi, members of Funkadelic, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Chara, and many, many others.) His label, God Mountain (which is the English translation of his surname) has served as his personal musical laboratory, releasing his own albums along with albums by Jun Togawa, Ex-Girl, The Saboten and others, all of which feature his distinctive touch of unpredictability and lunacy.

Recently, Jrawk visited Kamiyama at his island home. In between sightseeing, drinking, and chasing his toddler all around the island, he discussed pop music, the pointlessness of perfection, and how sometimes, meaninglessness is the most meaningful thing.

JR: When did you start playing?

HK: My father took me to see a lot of classical music, and I started playing piano at the same time...about three years old. I had a relative who went to a music university who taught lessons, I went every week...but I didn't like the lessons! (laughs) The pieces I was learning were boring, they didn't inspire me to play. When I was in Elementary school, I started learning pieces that had become my favorites: Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Bartok. One day, my piano teacher was walking her dog near my house and asked why I didn't play the lesson songs. I didn't want to, they were boring!

When I was 11, I bought my first concert ticket. It was Alexis Weissenberg, a Czech pianist, playing at the Tokyo Bunka Kaikan in Ueno. I remember it very well! It was Rachmaninov's 100th birthday, and Weissenberg played Rachmaninov's Piano Concertos 2 and 3, as well as 10 short pieces and a Bach piece. He had huge hands, he's a big guy, which helps with pieces like Rachmaninov's. I couldn't believe his strength...he played for three hours! I was amazed, but it made me give up on the idea of being a classical pianist...the grand piano is made for Western body types, not Asian.

JR: When did you start playing your own compositions?

HK: Elementary school. I did classic style, more modern classical, and some improv. I changed my mind in Junior High...in the early 70s, prog rock came. Yes, Pink Floyd, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Gentle Giant. I was fascinated. The early 70s had so many great bands!

JR: When did you start seriously improvising?

HK: The late 80s. Before, I had been in a regular pop rock band called Pink. We were a great band, very technically accomplished, but straight pop.

Pink's self titled debut (1985)

JR: I've seen reference to you saying that music only gets interesting when the musicians don't play exactly what's on the page.

HK: (nods) I felt that energy and feeling from when I was a kid. The most important thing is personality, the personality behind the music. The surface doesn't matter. The composition, arrangement, don't matter. I like what's behind it. For example, prog rock...there's a lot of prog rock in the world right now. The good stuff is good, but the bad stuff is REALLY bad! (laughs) Very simplistic thinking.

Music has two faces: good music and bad music. That's all, there is no other important distinction. I like good music! (laughs) Very simple. I want to create borderless music, any genre, from noise to a full orchestra.

With something like noise music...normally, your average person doesn't like noise music. I wish people would listen more closely, listen to the center of the music. I don't care about the surface...noise (music) isn't really noise. Good noise music has an energy, it's like magma.

NS: Magma...the band? (everybody laughs)

HK: That's not what i meant, but Magma is a great band! Christian Vander is a good friend.

JR: Your heart seems to be in experimental music, but you do quite a bit of commercial work. Is there modern pop that interests you?

HK: Pop is like anything else, there's good and bad. of course, there's The Beatles and the Stones. The Beatles were just a pop band, but they were brilliant. Their compositions and arrangements were great from their first album on. The producer was great, the engineering was great, the writing was great, the performances were great, the lyrics were great...but The Rolling Stones' first album...it's boring!

But modern music...Radiohead. Their attitude is great. Today, every band uses Pro Tools, but I think 90% of it is bad. All they do is adjust levels, edit. It's not art, it's just polish. But Radiohead use it as an instrument, they do great work, especially "Kid A." Very creative.

JR: Do you think digital recording can hurt music?

HK: In the past, everyone used analog, which has a great natural compression. Outboard effects would have nice effects...delay, reverb. Now, people use plug ins and software. Fake machines make fake music. Fakes make fakes.

JR: Your most recent CDs have been improvised piano pieces, no electronics involved. Was this a reaction to that? Some past pieces of yours (like "A Meaningful Meaninglessness") had digital manipulation.

HK: We should use both the new and the old, mix them. A lot of new artists don't use the old ways, they just want new new new...but now, the machines are using the men. The computer is in charge, the human is working for the machine. I don't like that.

JR: Given that, I'm curious what you think of Kraftwerk. They explicitly tried to remove the human element.

HK: But in the end, they were still human. They released some music a few years ago and toured, and the show was great. It was four people operating machines, but there was great humor, great wit. I don't like what you'd call laptop music, there's no interaction. It's not a performance. Moving a mouse and hitting the enter key is not a performance. The music can be good, but the show is boring. But with Kraftwerk, their live performances are fantastic.

"A Meaningful Meaninglessness" (2005)

In the 70s, when they played "Dentaku" (aka "Pocket Calculator,") they'd have actual pocket calculators at the front of the stage and dancing with them. I was shocked: this is rock 'n' roll. Yeah! (laughs) Kraftwerk is a rock band. The music isn't rock 'n' roll, the music's technopop. GOOD technopop, very analog, very warm. You don't ever get sick of it.

JR: Pop music still sells, but do you think modern pop quality is declining?

HK: The artists are still creating good music, but the business is dying. There's no energy, no ideas for selling the music, especially the majors. It's like their selling T shirts, not music. The marketing is very stale. The majors in Japan, they're losing staff. The good people are leaving and starting their own companies.

JR: So far as experimental music, it gets a lot of the same criticisms as electronic music in that's it's very sterile, too polite and polished, but you always inject quirky elements in your music.

HK: I think 60% or 70% of new artists are very strict, in that they only have one facet of what they're pursuing. I want 360 degree surround, to have something coming from everywhere. I'll mix computers, orchestras, typical rock bands, visual artists...children will play with toys, I'll play with these things like I'm a kid.

JR: But some past composers were very, very serious, like Iannis Xenakis.

HK: He's one of my favorites. Serious, yes, but serious and crazy! He started as an architect, very smart, very mathematical. Stockhausen was crazy too! His attitude was very pretty, but his surface was very serious. The surface was serious, but the inside was playful.

He had "Helicopter music," in which the players were riding around in helicopters during the performance. Stockhausen recorded this, and let all the sounds blend in: the engine, the strings. Very weird! He recorded and released this!

JR: OK, kind of a convoluted question...you're often referred to as the Japanese Brian Eno. Composers like Stockhausen, which you admire, had a strong element of chance in their creative processes, and Eno explicitly introduced chance into his music. How much chance is in your music?

HK: Hmm...(thinks) Both chance and planned music are inside me, I don't prefer one over the other.

But...orchestras are huge, up to 100 people or so. The rhythms, the beats aren't tight, unlike computer music, which is very, very tight. Orchestras are more about flow, they're not that worried about that level of precision, nor is the conductor. The conductor is the guide, he can point to Heaven, Hell, outer space, rivers, oceans...that's when music gets interesting, when it's imprecise. Chance plays a role in that, I think.

JR: Stockhausen, Xenakis...these people were very influential in the Tokyo underground in the late 60s and early 70s.

HK: The most influential composer of that period was Takehisa Kosugi...he's still doing amazing work in New York. But the underground was very small, personal. It wasn't even a scene, really. It was a handful of personalities, there wasn't a movement.

JR: When did you start playing professionally?

HK: In the late 70s...1978. People from Yonin Bayashi and the Anzen Band formed a group (Hero) and asked me to join. I ended up playing with Yonin Bayashi during their 80s reunion. Everybody called Yonin Bayashi the Japanese Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd was huge in Japan, they had a show in Hakone in the early 70s where they played "Echoes." Everybody was shocked.

"King Of Music" (1990)

Anyway, when I was in my late teens and early 20s, I was in a lot of bands! Hero, ES Island...the leader lives in Hachijo island, he's a very good taiko player. He used to be in Zoo Nee Voo.

JR: OK, so after that was Pink, then that led to your contract with EMI and "King Of Music."

HK: Yeah, I had Funkadelic members join on that one. I joined the New York scene...John Zorn, Marc Ribot, for "King Of Music 2." It was a good experience to release through a major, but I couldn't make more experimental music. But I could connect with good people, foreign musicians. In New York, I just brought my keyboard, tape, and myself. The record company wasn't hanging around in the studio.

After that, I established (Hoppy's label) God Mountain in '92. But EMI was a good learning experience.

JR: On the cover of "King Of Music," you're holding the Earth covered in...oil?

HK: Chocolate!

JR: OK, why chocolate?

HK: (smiles) No meaning! It just came to mind.

JR: Speaking of striking images, why cross dress?

HK: Especially in Japan, your school and family will pressure you to behave according to your gender: you're a male, you have to act this way. I don't like that constriction. I want to perform in the center of gender: not male, not female. I'm a musician, not a male or female. I have a penis, of course, but as a creative person, I'm not male or female.

When I perform as a drag queen, it's just to balance things out. I'm between genders.

JR: What about your projects? There's Pugs, Olivia New Ton John, and the God Mountain CDs with Jun Togawa. Were you heading those, or were you just part of the bands?

HK: Pugs and Olivia New Ton Jon were my projects, my concepts, as well as most of the compositions, visuals, etc. Ex-Girl as well...I found three girls who were vocalists, who didn't play instruments. I had a good idea: great, skilled vocals, but no instrumental skill! Most Japanese bands, the playing is very strong, but the vocals are weak. My idea for Ex-Girl was to do the opposite.

So far as the Jun Togawa Band...she's been popular for 20, 30 years now, very popular as an actress as well. But she's kind of crazy...I like crazy women, actually, but with her, nobody can handle her. It's difficult to communicate with her, for anyone. Sometimes, she won't leave the house, regardless of what she has planned. She won't answer the phone. Some days are difficult, some days are normal.

"King Of Music 2" (1991) Yes, that's Hoppy.

In the late 90s, nobody could work with her. But she's an artist, and wanted to release an album. We've been friends for a while, she called me to play a show. I agreed to play a show with her, and she announced to the audience that she was going to do a new album with my label, God Mountain! I was surprised...I hadn't heard about it! (laughs)

Anyway, after a couple of months, we did "20th Jun Togawa," six songs, a mini album. After that, she wanted a full band, and she called me. I said OK. A lot of musicians like her very much...Tatsuya Yoshida, for example, is a big fan. He had her picture on his wall! So I called him, Dennis Gunn, and others, and we got the Jun Togawa Band together.

I'm heavily involved in any God Mountain release, production, distribution, everything. A bit like Brian Eno.

JR: That was my next question, actually! You've been called the Japanese Brian Eno.

HK: (nods) Brian Eno, as he'll tell you, does not have strong instrumental skills. He has great ideas for productions, new sounds, ideas. I love Eno's style.

JR: I'm curious how deep the Eno comparison goes. Eno puts a lot of emphasis on chance, or manipulating a situation in ways that aren't strictly musical, to inspire creativity, like the Oblique Strategies cards. Is that an approach you share?

HK: When I produce, I organize everything, business and music...mentally as well. It's hard work to control the mental situation for each artist...my method is very general, very rough, much like Eno's cards. I don't tell musicians how to play. It's like eating dinner, riding a bicycle, or swimming in the ocean...you just do it.

I think Eno's way is very musical. It's not musical on the surface, but the spirit is very musical. He'll control the core of the artist. It's not all surface, controlling the notes and playing. He's interested in the heart of the artist, and the situation.

I'm not interested in just making music. Collaboration between artists is enormously important, trading energy man to man. Making a new connection is very interesting for me. If I'm stuck in my own head, I can't create. But I get energy from other people, and the mix of the thoughts and personalities...I'll squeeze it out of them and put it all together in a giant melting pot.

JR: So, creatively, what's next for you?

HK: I'm putting together a new orchestral piece, a bit like "A Meaningful Meaninglessness." Also, improv piano music is very easy for me, and i can record very quickly. I can go in with no pre set idea, just go in and play. Easy, but interesting...the music doesn't come from my brain, but from the universe, like a message from some other planet.

Between those, of course, are session jobs. Artists don't need much money, but they have to survive. We have to work.

JR: Thank you. Anything you'd like to add?

HK: (thinks) I don't have a message. Just listen. It's not a conversation, it's not about words.

Sometimes I'll sing in a fake language while I'm playing piano. I think the fake language is my regular, my true language. I don't need lyrics, usually. For me, my own language is enough.